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	<title>Comments on: Greens senate chances and pragmatism</title>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.frogworth.com/blog/archives/2007/11/29/greens-senate-chances-and-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-2156</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frogworth.com/blog/archives/2007/11/29/greens-senate-chances-and-pragmatism/#comment-2156</guid>
		<description>Was the pulp mill really that big an issue? In Tasmania, maybe. But it didn&#039;t affect Turnbull in Wentworth at all, and Labor obviously did quite alright with a &quot;Yes&quot; to the Pulp Mill stance, but a stronger anti-Climate Change policy. This was a &quot;big issues&quot; election, and the pulp mill ended up being a local issue.

Really, when you think about it, there&#039;s not a correctly named major party in Australia: The Liberals are no longer liberal, the Nationals only represent a fraction of the nation (though in some states they&#039;re still known as the &quot;National Country Party&quot;, which is more accurate, so long as you equate &quot;country&quot; with &quot;bush&quot;), the Greens are no longer just about being Green, and the Democrats certainly haven&#039;t been helping democracy for quite some time.

At least with the &quot;Pauline Party&quot; you got exactly what was on the label!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was the pulp mill really that big an issue? In Tasmania, maybe. But it didn't affect Turnbull in Wentworth at all, and Labor obviously did quite alright with a "Yes" to the Pulp Mill stance, but a stronger anti-Climate Change policy. This was a "big issues" election, and the pulp mill ended up being a local issue.</p>
<p>Really, when you think about it, there's not a correctly named major party in Australia: The Liberals are no longer liberal, the Nationals only represent a fraction of the nation (though in some states they're still known as the "National Country Party", which is more accurate, so long as you equate "country" with "bush"), the Greens are no longer just about being Green, and the Democrats certainly haven't been helping democracy for quite some time.</p>
<p>At least with the "Pauline Party" you got exactly what was on the label!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.frogworth.com/blog/archives/2007/11/29/greens-senate-chances-and-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-2152</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It may be that having &quot;stop the pulp mill&quot; placards was a bad idea, but I guess the pulp mill *was* a huge issue in this election. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s going too far to suggest that people voting Green as a protest against the pulp mill helped deliver the election to Labor. (I&#039;m not suggesting it was the deciding factor.)

The &quot;Greens&quot; name is perhaps a challenge, and I&#039;m sure there&#039;s heated debate about that in their policy rooms. But then, &quot;Labor&quot; is a reasonably charged name too, and one that in a sense allows the conservatives to bring up the spectre of union control all the time. I&#039;m sure that most Greens would be happy to accept environmentalism as central to the Greens platform, and I&#039;m not sure the name in itself is a liability.

Loony left tree-huggers as the primary image of Greens supporters I can see being a bad thing, sure. That said, I&#039;m pretty sure that *the* major reason that the Greens didn&#039;t pick up as many of the Democrat cotes this time is that a lot of people just felt that &quot;it was time&quot; for Labor. And unfortunately a lot of people don&#039;t understand that they can vote for Labor by voting Green.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be that having "stop the pulp mill" placards was a bad idea, but I guess the pulp mill *was* a huge issue in this election. I don't think it's going too far to suggest that people voting Green as a protest against the pulp mill helped deliver the election to Labor. (I'm not suggesting it was the deciding factor.)</p>
<p>The "Greens" name is perhaps a challenge, and I'm sure there's heated debate about that in their policy rooms. But then, "Labor" is a reasonably charged name too, and one that in a sense allows the conservatives to bring up the spectre of union control all the time. I'm sure that most Greens would be happy to accept environmentalism as central to the Greens platform, and I'm not sure the name in itself is a liability.</p>
<p>Loony left tree-huggers as the primary image of Greens supporters I can see being a bad thing, sure. That said, I'm pretty sure that *the* major reason that the Greens didn't pick up as many of the Democrat cotes this time is that a lot of people just felt that "it was time" for Labor. And unfortunately a lot of people don't understand that they can vote for Labor by voting Green.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.frogworth.com/blog/archives/2007/11/29/greens-senate-chances-and-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-2151</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 02:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If they don&#039;t want to be tainted as a &quot;one policy party&quot; then the first thing the Greens should do is change their name. The second thing they should do is *not* have a whole lot of &quot;stop the pulp mill&quot; placards (and nothing else) behind Bob Brown when he&#039;s crossed to during an election broadcast. The Greens should be big enough and experienced enough by now to either attract and/or hire enough sensible media minders to not come across as the &quot;loony left tree huggers&quot; that they unfortunately still present as occasionally. (Mostly even?)

As the Democrats have imploded over the last 5 years or so their old voters have obviously been split between Labor and the Greens. I&#039;d hazard a guess that it&#039;s stuff like the above which sent most of the Labor-defectors in that direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they don't want to be tainted as a "one policy party" then the first thing the Greens should do is change their name. The second thing they should do is *not* have a whole lot of "stop the pulp mill" placards (and nothing else) behind Bob Brown when he's crossed to during an election broadcast. The Greens should be big enough and experienced enough by now to either attract and/or hire enough sensible media minders to not come across as the "loony left tree huggers" that they unfortunately still present as occasionally. (Mostly even?)</p>
<p>As the Democrats have imploded over the last 5 years or so their old voters have obviously been split between Labor and the Greens. I'd hazard a guess that it's stuff like the above which sent most of the Labor-defectors in that direction.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin</title>
		<link>http://www.frogworth.com/blog/archives/2007/11/29/greens-senate-chances-and-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-2150</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 02:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frogworth.com/blog/archives/2007/11/29/greens-senate-chances-and-pragmatism/#comment-2150</guid>
		<description>points well made - you should join indeed.

there&#039;s an interesting idea in here, if not particularly well put:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/11/28/1196036982629.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>points well made &#8211; you should join indeed.</p>
<p>there's an interesting idea in here, if not particularly well put:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/11/28/1196036982629.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1" rel="nofollow">http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/11/28/1196036982629.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1</a></p>
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